Hi John,

You're amazingly practical which is what makes this thread so interesting.  You have the capacity to understand the technicalities of it better than I do.  You are better read on the subject than I am, so I am endebted to you for sharing your ideas and information and it's sources.

One of the reasons I wanted to look at the film again was that I was only really concentrating on the fall of the building, causes etc.  but I believe it made a reference somewhere to there being an ongoing investigation into the finances of America's commerce housed in WTB7.  But I want to make sure. 

I was listening in short bursts because my computer refused to play more than a few minutes before crashing.  Hoping ro relisten in a quiet moment and take more notice and notes.

I'll have to look at those other films etc to see what I make of them.   There is a similarity as I mentioned between all three buildings and there respective falls... worth repeatedly viewing.

Thanks there Tamara, you are only one of very few who even open their eyes to the realities and unfortunately being practical apparently is not being 'normal', a problem I have had since junior school days. You mention 'There is a similarity as I mentioned between all three buildings and there respective falls...'  err similarity, that is a little understatement, they looked identical to me. It was the speed of collapse that first awoke me to the unreality of all the events of that day. I really don't know if there is a connection with today's financial problems but it does seem quite likely.

Here is a subject to discuss even further, what is the base cause of the financial meltdown. I wonder just what gut reaction was it that made me cash in my pension and withdraw all my savings earlier this year, maybe a subliminal understanding of events. However we all make mistakes and mine could have been to sink it all into property, then see prices fall faster than ever in history, only time will tell.

John... 

Hi John,

You asked about why others don't join in the discusion.  I am not sure. 

I think for some, there is the fact,  that they or others close to them have been personally bereaved by this event and are too emotionally distressed by it to join in.  Others, will just accept it without question and are disinterested.  Most even if interested will only follow the discussions being too shy or too anxious or feel unqualified to offer an opinion. Then you have others like myself who really are interested and will take time to research and discuss the issue knowing that at best they can only hazard an inexpert guess based on others greater knowledge.....many I think will start but need to be gently guided through the maze of information.  Use good links and offer advice and reassurance to encourage progress.

I found the video of the collapse as shown on AE911Truth site interesting.  link to video  It does show,  that I along with the majority, assume the pancake effect (ie the floors dropping onto each other) is caused by the aircraft damaging the entire structure. In their simulation it did not and therefore requires help. It is definitely food for thought.

If I am to assume that the buildings "needed help" as is suggested.  I need to consider how this was achieved.....looking closer

Hi John,

Some of my thoughts

WTC7

To consider regarding motives etc.

• Was this the hub of the conspiracy plot?
• Did it contain Corporate Fraud Investigation details as was suggested in programme?

These about the actual collapse.

• How did it "burn" and collapse when other unfireproofed buildings remained virtually intact?
• Conventional explosives both loud and shockwave would break glass in surrounding area. So what else could have been used?

Hi Tamara, The questions just go on and on, but I think one reason is that no answers are forthcoming that actually answer them, therefore they get asked again and again.

'Was this the hub of the conspiracy plot?'  Ive really no idea.

'Did it contain Corporate Fraud Investigation details as was suggested in programme?'  Yes so Ive heard

'How did it "burn" and collapse when other unfireproofed buildings remained virtually intact?'  well this is exactly the point that makes the whole affair so suspicious.

'Conventional explosives both loud and shockwave would break glass in surrounding area. So what else could have been used?'  From what I understand almost all the ground floor windows were blown out as were several nearby buildings. But note also that the real killer explosions were well below ground level, they were picked up on seismic measurements, all facts that were never mentioned in the 'official report'.

John... Sorrry I have taken so long to reply. 

Tamara Bioylin wrote (see)

• How did it "burn" and collapse when other unfireproofed buildings remained virtually intact?
• Conventional explosives both loud and shockwave would break glass in surrounding area. So what else could have been used?

Ive seen several videos on this subject. One showed a helicopter above using thermal imaging. There were 'hotspots' that were at a FAR higher temperature than even jet fuel burns at. They then showed THERMITE at work (Which ive seen burn clear through an engine block!!), which DOES burn at that temperature and the resultant molten metal certainly points to it being used. There was nothing of note in the building specs of anything that could reach those temperatures.

Ive seen a video whereby one of the struts holding up the building had been CLEARLY cut at approx 45 degrees (which is how some ACTUAL buildings are professionally demolished)

Ive seen another whereby the firemen are talking about explosives going off down the escalator shaft ~ of which had been shut down for 'maintenance work' just days before. There are a LOT of reports of these explosions eminating from the shafts, so certainly 'something' exploded all the way up them.

Hi John, Rik H

I've spent several evenings with friends  watching the collapse of all three towers.....one friend is now complaining of closing his eyes and seeing a perfect re-run.  

Like yourselves.  I do think all three exhibit all the signs of controlled demolision.  I am highly suspicious of the lack of response to questions the official reports competence and even the people used to carry them out.

Found these sites particularly informative

The Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth Link

Kevin Ryan UL whistle blower:: his story is stunning: This is scary! His video Link

There are several others which follow on from these links too.

The Thermite use did puzzle me until it was explained that sulphur was one of the ingredients used to enhance/accelerate some types. Now I understand more clearlty the overall picture of it.

Hi John,  Rik H,

Hadn't realised that the lifts had been shut for maintenance.  As they were housed in the centre of the central core structure it is signifiicant. Nor was I aware of seismic measurements taken at that time which showed any significant data.  Have you got  links to that info? 

The use  of thermite is always put down on the basis of firing the charges simultaneously and the remaining evidence of the detonators.  I have no such worries about this, believing that if it was a controlled explosion then the perpetrators of it have access to the highest technology possible.  Surely, disguising them to look like something else such as everyday IT connections is child's play! 

I too have seen footage where struts appear to have been cut at that angle and remian in position...not distorted or moved...

Sorry Tamara.

Everything I know is off the top of my head from memory. I have quite a few dvds on the subject, but without going through them all id be really struggling to point specifics out. And no links either ~ sorry

However, heres some generalised links

911 the truth linkys

other general questions Id love to have answered are ~

Why were various high officials told to STAY AWAY from New York around that time for their 'own safety'??

Now I hold my hand up in that I really dont understand the point of NORAD but if its for the security of the united states then I have to ask if this is true.....why would nearly ALL know aircraft involved in Norad be in training on THAT day? It leaves the security defences wide open. Any numpty could tell you that. (Again theres a load more to this that id have to re check on)

What WAS Bush thinking when he was at the school and he was told of the attacks? (Id LOVE to know this one)

Why were all known possible tapes of the supposed plane hitting the pentagon taken away (especially of note was the one at a gas station across the road). The OFFICIAL release is beyond c*ap to me.

Where the hell is the plane that was supposed to have come down in the field? Theres nothing left of it!

Why were the towers 'insured' against TERRORIST ATTACKS just before the actual attacks!

Im sure I have many others, but without going through it all again I cant quite remember now.... 

Hi Rik H

I wouldn't expect anyone to hold the masses of information about this in ther brain.....it's vast.  You've given me plenty to think about.  Thanks for the Link.  I'll muse on it for a while.

Hi John, RikH,

Been looking at the Pentagon crash.  This link Cassiopaea.org is interesting. especially it's insight into hypnosis...or suggestion really.... How the shock of one event leaves you open to suggestion re the next one.   i hve to say tha inthat respect there is a sense of the world's largest mind bending trick having taken place......

Along with the overall realisation, that we don't want to believe that we live in  a world under a government which isn't truthful, it is no surprise that most people won't even look a the data for fear of what might be found out....... Ignorance is bliss springs to mind.

Hi Tamara & Rik, that was a most interesting link, and I think the hypnosis/suggestion theory could be true. I have experienced such events, having had a very bad 'kitchen fitter' who played mind games from day one, I became prone to any comfort and in doing so was conned out of more than the cost of the kitchen so mind bending did take place.

But I think many answers can be solved if we were to think 'from the other side', imagine now that the objective was to start a war, imagine if the government did instigate all the events then many of the questions would be answered, distasteful as it is, it does then seem to make sense and many of the questions do get answered.

Intrigued John... 

Hi John,

I hadn't read further than the "power of suggestion".  Did you read on about the CIA?  It suggests reading about tbe most powerful people in the world.  They cite this book.

 Victor Marchetti, a former high-ranking CIA official's book  The CIA and the Cult of Intelligence.

Have you read it?

Hi John,

Reading avidly,

A public revelation that trillions of dollars of US Government money was unaccounted for was made within days the 9/11 event happened. This was being investigated from within the WTB7. ..A sell off of shares on the airline, building insurers etc just prior seems suspicious.

Check these Links out.

Pandora's Black Box Chapter Two..from Pilots for 9/11 truth.org

40 reaons to question the official 911 truths

Hi Tamara, sorry it's been so long but I have rather lost confidence in spouting my opinions since being banned by Dave and hearing no other input on this thread, however I have viewed the sites you suggest and all come to the same conclusion and that conclusion is 'the Emperor has no clothes' just like the Hi Fi discussions, IE go along with the crowd or be ostracised for thinking differently. Read my reply from 03/11/08 and it all makes sense, sorry to suggest this but it is a precursor to a major war.

We now have recession like never before, well similar to the 1930's. Whatever our politicians believe and promote the cyclic way of the world seems to predominate and it seems that no one can control it no matter how much technology is in place or how much history is studied, the past always seems to be repeated, that is to my mind a rather sad view of the human race.

I'm sure that if all the past conflicts and wars were put into a computer optimisation program then it would come back and say 'have a cuppa, lets talk it over' etc. It seems all wars are started by dishonesty and misunderstanding and in my simplistic way this is a large part of the economic crisis that we now have.

Confused... John... 

Hi John,

Well. I have read your last post with dismay.  I know that you have strongly held views on things.  They could be considered contraversial but it's what keeps the forums alive. Don't  give up on me...I love to hear what you've got to say. John, you're tackling difficult subjects will a good intellectual brain. That's exactly what makes it interesting.  If you want to say something and you can put it here. you can message me, if you like.

I think the only beef on the site about swearing/personal comments.  Even I've had to temper some of my comments to make them "socially acceptable.,"  I particularly think hard about it on this site.  I don't want to upset people.....but I do want to find the truth..or at least the one which will safify my thinking....even if not the one accepted by all.

Re: war.  it is always about "SELF"...gaining power...that has three prongs  Money, Glory and Sex.  They are both hooks to draw others in and ultimate goals.  There my world view in a nutshell.

Hi John,

Nice to hear from you again.

I agree with an awful lot of what you say but not all , that's only to be expected I suppose we all have varied opinions and different ways of finding the truth.

For thousands of years the human race has been pretty much static in it's moral and ethical reasoning, we have advanced technologically in leaps and bounds but have not kept up with our attitude towards each other we are still greedy, ruthless, arrogant , murderous, selfish, tribal and power hungry, all governments are corrupt without exception and always have been.

 All the good honest people of the world can do is to make the space immediately around them a better place by trying to do what is right and treating people they meet with kindness and respect,  hopefully with more time this will spread worldwide when the rest of the human race grows up.

All the best Electro.