Hi Dave Oliver, I notice that most members get a 'message member' box but you don't appear to have that? Maybe you would rather not receive mail and certainly not include 'chopped and grated cable manufacturers', maybe that is where you see me coming from!

Now re written today the article is slightly longer, but it is not a go at anyone or anything simply an observation of the state of Hi Fi today, probably the best I have written so far, a totally honest appraisal of the facts, please let me know if you wish to publish it, as if not then OK, I will offer it to a major magazine like Hi Fi News, maybe a little risky for them but I'm sure some magazine will appreciate it.

John... 

Hi Gerald,

 Can't help you with the chicken soup and I'm sure it's far tastier than any cable, but it seems you need help with your perception of music and sound.

 An awful lot has been said about all types of cable and connectors on this thread and many others ,but the debate rages on with no sign of a conclusion, have you wondered why this is ?

Perhaps it is because there is truth on both sides , and the answer is not clear cut, there is still a bit of mystery to the transmission of complex musical signals no matter how much measuring is done.

Even John has heard a small difference between two interconnects but cannot measure it so he has gone into denial.

I would be the first to admit there are a lot of companies that exploit this uncertainty to the full to milk it for the considerable profits to be made , but it does not change the fact that some cables sound different to others when the LC&R is identical.

The spell check worked this time, it seems to have a mind of it's own , all the best Electro.

Hi Carl,

Good point there...If Mr Zyang wishes to advertise in AVR he should be paying for the space 

Kind regards,

Bill.

I don't know what Mr Zyang is all about but I recon you must be winner of 'most posts' on this thread.

John...

Hi John,

It may horrify you to hear that I've hardly contributed at all on this one.....

This Thread must have slipped under the Radar, mate... ......a gross dereliction of duty!

Apologies to Mr Zhang....I mis-spelled his name !

 Kind regards,

Bill

....On the other hand I may have erroneously assumed Shuang Zhang to be a Mr... !????

All the best.........................Bill.

Sorrry Bill but 804 posts is a record is it not, I have never seen a number like that on any other.

When Dave gets his act together on the legue tables then I will nominate you for 'most posts' award, you can nominate me for 'most posts after midnight' and maybe we could both nominate 'gerald Racklin' for the winner of 'most bollocks'.

Chears mate John... 

electrohead wrote (see)

Even John has heard a small difference between two interconnects but cannot measure it so he has gone into denial.

I would be the first to admit there are a lot of companies that exploit this uncertainty to the full to milk it for the considerable profits to be made , but it does not change the fact that some cables sound different to others when the LC&R is identical.

I am becoming more convinced that integrity of the connectors is the prime culprit here. For the first time ever, a few weeks ago I messed around with some phono plugs and sockets connected to measuring equipment. I was amazed just how tough it was to get the rig stable for testing; a lot of cleaning and wriggling of plugs in sockets was involved. I was seeing small instabilities in the rig for a long time after it all sounded fine.

Right now I am of a frame of mind that says all phono plugs and sockets should be junked in favour of their BNC counterparts. 

I would find it hard to use the words 'in denial' that is a bit strong, as may be it was a connector difference I heard.

I agree that connectors are the issue rather than cables, but BNCs are bulky and expensive, so lets revisit the 'SVHS' cable, now I think that could be a new standard. Even without impedance matching it would provide good contact pressure, a low cost solution, and small physical size. What more could anyone want of an interconnect?

With impedance matching it would provide a DC to 100MHz bandwidth, pretty good for an interconnect for audio, even gold plated it is only a few pounds for the cable, and a ready made solution.

Without impedance matching it would easily get 100KHz in most audio scenarios, and all with similar 'metal mass' a new star is born.

Lets face it, the phono connector was never designed or intended to be an audio interconnect, that was just a mistake, a historical blunder, but these things happen. The DIN standard on the other hand, whilst being a good standard appeared let down by the fashion of seriously thick cables and the lack of understanding as to what the standard really was, i.e. current drive rather than voltage.

From the Ivory towers John... 

I still am unable to understand why more people do not use XLR connectors or the previous connector the EP2 for unbalanced, the EP3 for balanced and the EP4 for mains using the EP4 enables the use of mains earth and technical earth now that would get rid of the mains interference, after all it was good enough for the professional people so it should be good enough for the amateur listeners who claim they can hear the difference between cables and connectors, as John said bell wire will work and I find that even 300 ohm ribbon cable would be good enough, also if they are so worried about interference then use balanced line, three op amps configured as an instrumentation amplifier with a pre set resistor and a pre set capacitor would yeald very good common mode rejection, better still a good quality input transformer and a good quality output transformer from the source, then you could use long screened cables without any degradation of the sound. Still nothing on the chicken soup. Gerald

Hi John,

It's a deal .....I am happy to nominate you for the Award for "Most Posts After Midnight"!  In fact I mentioned to Dave(M) a while back that you write all your best stuff at 1.30am in the morning!!

 All the best.....Bill.

OK Dave the problem here is that most cables sound 'just fine', that is what the cable conundrum is all about, once we rise above 'rock bottom' they all just sound fine.

I hope to get the article on cables published soon, if not here then in a Mag like Hi-Fi News.

John... 

Hi  all ,

 Any audio cable provided it is properly constructed and  long enough to reach between the pieces of equipment that need to be connected will do a perfectly adequate job no question, and  most people are happy with that.

 But some cables seem to degrade the musical signal less than others, to my ear the better cables seem to allow better rendition of spacial  and timing information where the leading edge of the notes are better defined and the decay of the notes especially is not distorted or blurred , there is better  more natural reproduction of the recording acoustic, depending on the recording , and an almost unconscious ease of listening with far more of the "tingle factor" , in other word much nearer to real live music. But i hasten to add the better cables are quite hard to find , but once found you never look back.

 John , I look forward to reading your article , if it is in HIFI news I'm sure Paul Miller could assist you with any measurements.

 all the best Electro.

Carl

The Chinese shoes are history. Thanks for that. It's not the first time they've tried it but I must have missed that one.

Glastonbury Dave ???

Sorry mate, it's been done a million times before and the conclusion was always 'no conclusion'. cables appear a mystery as great as UFOs or crop circles. It is like discussing the good lord to a religious group and an atheist there will never be agreement.

A large part of Hi-Fi appears to be shrouded in mystery, mysticism and belief, and equally no part is capable of scientific proof.

Personally I don't go along with that, I believe Hi-Fi is born out of physics, measurement and common sense, but I am not in the majority, I am not the norm of Hi-Fi people. I appear to be on the fringe, despite designing some serious equipment and taking an interest for fifty odd years.

However good to see you back.

John...