Well it seems to me try the bentley amp first over say 2 months

Then swop to the fiesta amp over 2 months

Whilst im sure there will be a 'human factor' in the mix, im also sure if there ARE any differences heard at home then they will over time become apparant. I say the (presumably) better amp first as it seems to me that your more likely to pick up on things that are LOST as opposed to gained.

Its like the old saying ~ 'you never know what you had till its gone'

Time and time again I hear people say ~ 'my system is lovely, why would I want anything else?' or 'my picture is ok for me, its digital, how can it be improved upon?' and so on

Well Id say to them try the bentleys out over time THEN step down. Im sure 'some' wont tell a difference but then im also sure that people percieve things differently anyways.

Everyone is different ~ FACT

Heres an interesting take on the 'hearing perception' side of things

http://www.zerogain.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16609&page=2

also (dont shout me down ) I have one of those 'demagnestising discs!

Most interesting, but Hi Fi is about reproducing music and not creating it, so imagine that the whole chain from mike to speaker were completely perfect, had no deficiencies whatsoever, imagine a situation where the system was so transparent then it would simply disappear. That is what I believe Hi Fi should be, a carrier of music not a creator, back to farming analogy, the wine is the music the glass is the carrier. Tell me how much does a particular glass affect the taste of wine?

I won't even think about the demag....... disc, as I always believed a CD to be an optical device!

John... 

Hi Carl yes I remember and did have a go BUT it was a completely different test, Tamara's post was about relating sound to colour, whereas Rik's is about perception of harmonics, but as I said previously neither have anything to do with reproduction, interesting as they are.

No reproduction is simply recreating the original, it does not impact on how we hear or what we hear. OK I use the word 'simply' but it is not simple, no it is probably the most difficult aspect of reproduction we have, but if it were perfect then all we would hear what was intended.

Imagine now bringing a 35mm projector into the room and projecting the original film onto your wall, now compare that with the LCD picture on the telly, that is what we should be comparing just as my fathers friend did with his harpsichord recordings back in the 50s.

I really believe that if say John Williams were to play solo guitar in my room and I were to record it and play it back, and if you as a listener were blindfolded then you would probably never know the difference, that is how good sound reproduction is. But if you were to do the same with a four piece jazz band then the differences would be obvious, there are deficiencies, but I don't think for one minute that they can be cured by a any changes of cable, they will come from new transductors and recording techniques.

Please all, I have no axe to grind and would like more than anything like to advance Hi Fi to the 'next level', but whilst we continue talking about the inconsequential we are missing the real issues.

John... 

I know that a lot of people dont believe in the 'demagnestising' cd lark. Im not quoting I do or dont tell a difference in sound (Havnt used it in over a year, I might give it a go soon)

But I do actually recall running it through my av amp to feed ALL the speakers. All it does it feed a sort of wavelike sonic 'howl' through the system (And its a good idea to leave the room when it does it!). But i recall that there was a slight pause between selecting a channel to listen to and the actual sound coming through!! Im not talking about a hardly percievable gap im talking about one where I actually thought id knackered my amp up!! (A couple of seconds say where it should have been almost instantanious). I also noticed that a couple of people on that thread that HAD been given the disc to try had broken their systems somehow!

Im not drawing ANY conclusions from all this, but it is mighty strange.............

Carl Kirby wrote (see)

Hi Rik the link you posted on sounds ? Tamara posted something like that test, on the perceptions thread ! think even John had a go. 

Can you send me a linky to that please mate?

Cheers

John Fisher wrote (see)

I really believe that if say John Williams were to play solo guitar in my room and I were to record it and play it back, and if you as a listener were blindfolded then you would probably never know the difference, that is how good sound reproduction is. But if you were to do the same with a four piece jazz band then the differences would be obvious, there are deficiencies, but I don't think for one minute that they can be cured by a any changes of cable, they will come from new transductors and recording techniques.

Please all, I have no axe to grind and would like more than anything like to advance Hi Fi to the 'next level', but whilst we continue talking about the inconsequential we are missing the real issues.

John... 

Its not that were missing the big issues. Its that until these items come out (at a 'real world' affordable price) then we can only really help each other with what IS available to us.

Cables wont 'cure' the problem but they will 'allow' the systems we have to sound better

OK Rik I am now beginning to see the real difference in perception that we have, now you state 'until these items come out' whereas I state 'lets design these items', see the difference, I see what is possible not what is available, this may be a reason that I do get into so many heated discussions (auguments), in every aspect of life I seem to see what is possible, whether it is available or not is simply a procurement problem, a 'real world affordable price' is a price issue, not basically a design one, if it were possible to design a hi fi set up that was so good as to be completely transparent and offer it for say £100,000 then I'm sure there would be customers, though not many, equally well offer a half decent CD/DVD player though Tescos and sell it to the world then I'm sure it will be a better 'earner'. But hi fi is not commerce, hi fi design is done though passion and desire the same as interior design so price is not an issue.

John... Back in the ivory tower. 

Hi Rik,

This is one that Tamara posted - but i think there was another, will search again ?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/humanbody/mind/surveys/synaesthesia/hear/

Rik H wrote (see)

I know that a lot of people dont believe in the 'demagnestising' cd lark. Im not quoting I do or dont tell a difference in sound (Havnt used it in over a year, I might give it a go soon)

Fred,

If there is one thing i have learnt in life it is to never dismiss out of hand the seemingly ridiculous , it may come back to bite you.

all the best Electro.

Hi all,

Here is another test posted on another thread , can't remember who or which thread but there are several different tests all of which are very useful.

Give them a try Electro.       THESE TESTS

Fred Scuttle wrote (see)

Rik H wrote (see)

I know that a lot of people dont believe in the 'demagnestising' cd lark. Im not quoting I do or dont tell a difference in sound (Havnt used it in over a year, I might give it a go soon)

That you even considered using it at all says a lot about you.

Carl Kirby wrote (see)

Hi Rik,

This is one that Tamara posted - but i think there was another, will search again ?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/humanbody/mind/surveys/synaesthesia/hear/

electrohead wrote (see)

Hi all,

Here is another test posted on another thread , can't remember who or which thread but there are several different tests all of which are very useful.

Give them a try Electro.       THESE TESTS

Morning All,

Electro, thanks for finding Tamara's link on hearing tests, been looking, for Rik,   Cheers ...Carl.

Very interesting electro, have just tried three of the tests, and came well above average on two and about average on the third. But when I say interesting these tests are about musical appreciation and hearing ability not hi fi, indeed the quality of samples was hardly brilliant and I was listening on a pair of good quality phones.

Reproduction is exactly that, reproducing the original, not changing it, not making it musical, now for all the claims made about cables I don't think anyone could argue that they change the pitch or rhythm of music. The claims almost always seem to be the intangibles, sound stage, three dimonsionality, the airyness etc. So all the perceived differences seem to be of an emotional nature rather than a physical one. I know from experience that my system will vary between 'pretty average' and 'total sonic nervana' and that is not by any change at all apart from my mood and perceptiveness at the time. So imagine the excitement of a new cable, note the effect it will have on one's perception, add all that into the equation and you may see where I'm coming from.

John... 

electrohead wrote (see)

Fred,

If there is one thing i have learnt in life it is to never dismiss out of hand the seemingly ridiculous , it may come back to bite you.

all the best Electro.

Rik H wrote (see)

Fred Scuttle wrote (see)

Rik H wrote (see)

I know that a lot of people dont believe in the 'demagnestising' cd lark. Im not quoting I do or dont tell a difference in sound (Havnt used it in over a year, I might give it a go soon)

That you even considered using it at all says a lot about you.

And that you replied with 'that' says a lot about you fred