It is interesting to note that the banning of "non-believers" appears to be a common occurrence on so-called "audiophile" discussion boards around the world, typically on the grounds of rudeness. Now you can draw one of two possible conclusions from this

EITHER

There is some pathological connection between those who refuse to accept the charlatanry in the present-day domestic audio industry, and an irresistible desire to insult others

OR

those who are moderators and opinion-formers on such boards talk so much BS that it is all too easy to descend into immoderate language out of sheer frustration with those who refuse to accept rational argument. The merest hint of an immoderate tone provides a nice, easy excuse to slay the dragon who seems intent upon eating the villagers, who then go back to their simple but deluded lives where everything is musical and no mathematics can disturb the bliss.

I wonder which scenario paints the more typical picture of those banned from audiophile forums.

Pluto wrote (see)

It is interesting to note that the banning of "non-believers" appears to be a common occurrence on so-called "audiophile" discussion boards around the world, typically on the grounds of rudeness. Now you can draw one of two possible conclusions from this

EITHER

There is some pathological connection between those who refuse to accept the charlatanry in the present-day domestic audio industry, and an irresistible desire to insult others

OR

those who are moderators and opinion-formers on such boards talk so much BS that it is all too easy to descend into immoderate language out of sheer frustration with those who refuse to accept rational argument. The merest hint of an immoderate tone provides a nice, easy excuse to slay the dragon who seems intent upon eating the villagers, who then go back to their simple but deluded lives where everything is musical and no mathematics can disturb the bliss.

I wonder which scenario paints the more typical picture of those banned from audiophile forums.

OR

Fred is just a rude pedant incapable of rational argument

Fred,

 I have nothing against you or what you are saying , the only beef i have is the way you say it.

Pluto , I think there is some truth in both your options, but if the villagers are truly happy who are we to take away their happiness, even if they are paying dearly for it, try telling a woman that her miracle anti wrinkle cream at £100 per small pot can be bettered by a moisturiser at £4.99  she won't thank you for it.

If anybody on this forum thinks they are going to change anything by insulting or constantly harassing cable manufacturers, they are mistaken,  it just gives them more opportunity to prove that all non believers are rude arrogant nutters.

 Mature reasoned and informed argument is the only way to put your point and the only way anything will change no matter how frustrating that may be.

electrohead wrote (see)

try telling a woman that her miracle anti wrinkle cream at £100 per small pot can be bettered by a moisturiser at £4.99  she won't thank you for it.

BTDT, more or less.

Oddly enough, some of those preperations do contain some quite hi-tech ingredients but nonetheless, they could easily be sold at Maplin prices, not Nordost!

But you make a fair point. The amazing part (I find) is how readily the villagers have become seduced by the great god Marketeer.

Pluto wrote (see)

The amazing part (I find) is how readily the villagers have become seduced by the great god Marketeer.

Mr Hamilton is one of those villagers.

David Hamilton wrote (see)

Fred is just a rude pedant incapable of rational argument

Show me just one example where I've been rude.

electrohead wrote (see)

 if the villagers are truly happy who are we to take away their happiness, even if they are paying dearly for it

So is it OK for the villagers to be ripped off? Wouldn't the villagers prefer to achieve the same result for less money?

 Fred Scuttle wrote (see)

Pluto wrote (see)

The amazing part (I find) is how readily the villagers have become seduced by the great god Marketeer.

Mr Hamilton is one of those villagers.

 I think you've answered your own point about rudeness Fred. Make a point by all means, but if you start getting personal, people will get offended, including you by the sound of it.

Guys, I know it can be frustrating when the unstoppable force meets the unmoveable object, but neither will be changed by sniping.

Did anyone think I may be right, (answers on a postcard please).

All the best Mick.

Mick,

 Sorry , you seem to have been forgotten in all the excitement , yes i think you may be correct it is more likely to be a static problem than anything to do with magnetism, as i said on page 1 of this thread i use electrolube asa anti static spray cleaner to clean my Cd's on the playing and label sides , it cleans and helps to stop static build up on the disc , i also use a zerostat anti static pistol to good effect.

Electrohead,thanks for the reply, yes it does seem to be static that causes problems on cd's as well as Lp's in the old day's, so therefore no need to spend £200.00 on a demagnetizer,I would think?

All the best Mick.

Just to confuse matters further,  stray electromagnetic fields will induce minute Eddy Currents within a conductor (incl aluminium foil). These currents will in turn create their own magnetic field. Sadly the average household is full of stray magnetic fields, a fact not unnoticed by companies such as Quantum.

Kind regards - Bill C.

Of the problems mentioned in this thread so far, static is probably a much more serious problem for CD than magnetism. If you were able to look at a statically charged disc in a darkened room you might be able to see filaments of electricity crawling over it's surface. These may constitute interference to laser light.  The tray of the CD player will "sink" some of the static energy (if any happens to occur on the disc) before playing. A clamp may help too, but judging from products out there, we can assume that static build up during play is the most reckonable problem so anything that acts as a permanent/semi-permanent treatment may be worthwhile ?

I could mention the merits of high tensile steel headshell screws over aluminium (even though they can be magnetic...) but this could cause sensory overload on this particular thread ...

Everything in hi-fi makes a difference.  It all depends on the degree of difference? (No endorsement of the Bedini intended....)

Fred,

I am not being funny or taking the p*** , but do you actually own a hifi ? if so, do you enjoy listening to music , it's just that i am trying to understand the man behind the names , there is nothing on your members profile so it makes it difficult for me to build up a mental picture of you , or maybe that's the idea.

If you have no objection i would like some more info so i can better understand where you are coming from and why you are so negative . Perhaps you could tell me what equipment and cables you use for a start.

 thanks Electro.

Bill,

I totally agree !

hi all.

this thread is getting popular over 3000 hits. ???

Thanks Electrohead...for you earlier kind sentiments.

Carl, yes indeed, you've unwittingly uncorked a whole nest of hornets here  !

Kind regards - BC

Carl, not wishing to hijack an interesting thread, often what is at stake in these discussions is the listeners's inviolable right to trust his own ears. Not everything in hifi necessarily has an explanation but it works nevertheless.

A recent example was at last year's hifi exhibition in which 2 manufacturers collaboratively demonstrated a silver fuse which it was claimed made a difference when inserted as a straight replacement for the old copper one. Understandably there were a few guffaws from the odd detractor, but after the A-B, everyone agreed that there was a clear effect. One detractor spoke out defiantly declaring that he could hear a difference but wasn't sure if it was an improvement...In my opinion it was better but I was disturbed by the fact that I couldn't understand why.

One thing the people in that room all had in common was their ears. Electronics knowledge levels may have been different but ears are pretty conclusive.

We could rant endlessly about the National Grid being conveyed through aluminium, our house wiring being inadequate (and probably in need of a good tightening), and the fact that "well designed power supplies in hifi should render such upgrades irrelevant" (e.g. you could pull the fuse on your power amp altogether and it would still run - at least for a few seconds) but it doesn't alter the fact that Mains purification and other such upgrades, work, despite strongly held beliefs.  I would never consider running even my tv without Mains purification of some sort.

Trust your ears my friend...

- BC

By the time your power reaches the amplifier electronics it has been through a transformer, rectified and all ripple smoothed out by the enormous electrolytics they use these days there are no traces of ripple present on the supply rails, never mind anything that will be affected by "purification", whatever that's supposed to be. To suggest a fuse can make an audible difference (i presume it was on the mains) is quite frankly absurdist nonsense. A small twiddle of the volume would be enough to fool everyone.