Hi Steve, you talk of mains cables and green pens, is this not Australian humor, are are we entering the 'twilight zone', 'voodoo land'. I have just returned from a session of 10cc and Dire Straits and I have to say it sounded magical, full bodied, breathtakingly wide and deep, stunning in it's inner detail. A sound so breathtakingly good that I could really ask for no better. So am I just mental, did I get it all wrong, as my total cable cost was under £20, in fact the whole system is under £1000. Maybe my perception of it being so good is all down to the drugs, Special Brew, but whatever it does sound stunning and that inner detail is just so emotional. So maybe a new item to add to the Hi Fi spend list for the ultimate listening experience - the right drugs. In my teens even a Sinclaire amp, SP25 deck and Tannoy Lancasters sounded beautiful with a little 'bob hope'.
Hello John as you are obviously an expert on coloured pens on CD's does the colour of the pen effect the sound of the music, i.e. the type of music needs a different colour of pen.
Another question does it help on DVD's to make the picture and sound different.
And finaly the last question when you have a data CD does the colour of the pen effect the data saved on the disk.
It is a very interesting subject and I think more research is needed, maybe you can get a grant to carry out the investigation into this thing, I will back you up in any request to the government for the money.
Regards Gerald. Still feeling good hope it keeps up it seems there is a hair trigger effect involved in the the medicines I have to take.
Its good that you are happy with your sound system. In the end it is about enjoying the music that your system makes, not how much it costs. It means system synergy as well, what components, speakers and cables work well together, the room acoustics etc.
The green pen was a tweak that was quite popular back in the early 90's and yes it did make some cd discs a touch smoother sounding. The same as you clean your cds it will be a bit clearer sounding, I would not call it voodoo but that is what my ears picked up.
I must say i have an engineer friend who said changing power leads won't make a difference ( because you can't perhaps measure the change) however when he listened when i changed the power lead on my sytem he could not believe the difference that it made - so much so he is getting power leads for his system.
The green pen was a tweak that was quite popular back in the early 90's and yes it did make some cd discs a touch smoother sounding. The same as you clean your cds it will be a bit clearer sounding, I would not call it voodoo but that is what my ears picked up.
It's like Jesus or fairies. All you have to do is believe eh Steve? Most ardent foo worshippers don't even buy the silly little green men, sorry pen, idea.
I must say i have an engineer friend who said changing power leads won't make a difference ( because you can't perhaps measure the change) however when he listened when i changed the power lead on my sytem he could not believe the difference that it made - so much so he is getting power leads for his system.
I must say I've heard endless variations of assertions like these, although it's usually a friend, a brother, a sister or a spouse.There are very good reasons why mains leads can't and therefore don't affect the sound of equipment connected to them. They ain't in the signal path and wires can't change anything about the mains. The mains goes in one end and emerges unchanged at the other (providing it's adequately rated of course) whatever mains lead you use. If you buy an expensive mains lead you've been had.
I must say the real test is your ears not measurements, specs etc. Any way i don't want to get into a debate.
Steve you start a discussion on leads, then when it gets a little sticky say you don't want to debate it!!!
99% of cable talk is belief, suggestion etc. I remember reading a report from a group who did a serious speaker cable test, to friends and customers. Everyone had their score sheets ready, but a strange twist here, they were all told in advance what type of cable they were listening to.
First up something not much better than bell wire - score pretty low.
Right up to monster cable at several £100 a metre - top score.
In concluding the test, everyone was thanked for their time, and the sheets analysed, the results were completely as expected, the more you pay the better result you will get.
Now the real 'sting in the tail' of this story is that they NEVER actually changed the cable, they simply planted an impression in the mind and that changed the listeners perception, perception is to most reality, in fact it is the same thing - but is it - what those people heard was their perception, if the cables never changed then the reality never changed either!
I must say the real test is your ears not measurements, specs etc.
You can test, you can measure, you can do ABX testing. Whatever you do, you aren't going to find any differences in the "sound" of mains leads.
Of course if you know what you have connected and it's cost you a lot of cash you will listen extra hard and then hear the difference you crave courtesy of the placebo effect.
I am happy to debate. However I came only to the forum to query two power leads.
Just to add there is heaps of documentation in the top hi-fi mags about power leads and there difference they can have on the sound, and as I said previously i have had skeptics at my place and they were convinced after we compared the power leads.
Steve, what more do you expect me to say, I have mentioned a cable test that put it all in perspective, I have stated on this site that what I hear at home is every bit as good as anything I have ever heard.
I have over the past months proffered the opinion that perception and reality are two different things.
there is heaps of documentation in the top hi-fi mags about power leads and there difference they can have on the sound
Of course there is, that is their income, no mag is going to slag off 'the hand that feeds', get real to commercial life.
Yes there is more to life than measurement alone, there is suggestion, a far more powerful controller of perception, there is placebo effect often far more powerful than conventional medicine, but please understand the difference.
Now for a test of perception against reality, in ten words or less, please answer the following:
What caused the collapse of the twin towers in 911???
Just to add there is heaps of documentation in the top hi-fi mags about power leads and there difference they can have on the sound, and as I said previously i have had skeptics at my place and they were convinced after we compared the power leads.
Including a engineer and a sound mixing guy
The "documentation" in the hifi mags is worthless assertions from non-technical folk that haven't performed properly controlled blind tests, and they won't ever do that while they're in bed with the charlatans that sell these rip off cables. To understand why it simply isn't possible all that is needed is a rudimentary knowledge of electronics.
No, of course not. A plane hit could never do that, in exactly the same way that a mains lead cannot affect the sound, again I come back to perception verses reality. Many peoples perception of 911 is reinforced by the official commission report, but reality is another thing. Physics and reality say that this was just not possible, so we have to look deeper. When we do then there is a 'can of worms' beyond belief. Take a look Fred, I believe the search '9/11 truth' will bring up 22 million hits, am I the odd one out?, a film I have on DVD 'Loose Change' I have heard has been viewed by 100 million people, I am beginning to feel quite 'mainstream' in opinion.
At times perception and reality can be both true, and perhaps on your system you did not hear changes when you tried various leads and maybe perhaps on my system with changes of a power lead my perception was corrrect about changes in the sound and perhaps when i have had various people who also listened percieved the same changes, and so just maybe by chance it could be true that changing a power lead could make a difference to some systems.
I have been to shops selling power leads, people who also make hifi equipment who i would respect as hi-fi buffs and who have good ears also agree that in at least many cases a power lead can make a difference especially shielded ones. I do not know all the technical electrical information but I know from general experience and with discussion from those in the industry that for sometimes weird reasons ( and maybe not always can be explained scientifically) a simple change in a lead can make a difference.
Whether you agree or disagree thats fine - this is just from my limited experience.
Steve, I already described to you a test that clearly sums up the cable conundrum.
You state that 'in your limited experiance', so how about the experience of film sound engineers, recording studio engineers, BBC sound engineers, I know of no one in the profession who would think twice about a mains lead - and these are the people who create our 'so loved' recordings.
A crucial point you seem to miss here, and that is 'suggestability' and a natural human reaction of 'agreement', this is often at a telepathic level and completely subconscious. Now you've probably never experimented with telepathy, but I have, and seen it first hand. An idea can be transferred from one to another simply by belief, no words, no suggestion, simply belief.
Physics are what created Hi Fi, science is what created the modern world, do you not think the phone companies who spend millions on transatlantic cables would not be looking for a result, an improvement if it were possible. Of course they would, have they, no, because a copper cable is simply that, a copper cable, it has characteristics - measurable - repeatable - and known. And at least they are carrying an audio signal, what you are talking about is a mains cable, something that is not even in the signal path.
Some time ago I asked on this site a question, 'changing my door handles to chrome, would that brighten the sound', I asked it as a joke, but what you're suggesting is equally a joke.
A rather small issue you tend to forget re mains leads, power is distributed over many miles, maybe in the open air, maybe underground, it enters your premises, goes though a meter and fuse-boxes, eventually to a socket on the wall. Now despite all that, the next two meters make a difference, just realise the absurdity of what you are suggesting. I am not knocking your beliefs, but understand they are beliefs, they are certainly not real!
John...
PS If you want to find any truth in life the last place to look is the market, the next last place is the media, you will eventually find it, but it will not be presented on a plate.
Hello John, I have found that mains leads do make a difference, namely to the taste of tea and coffee when I used a good quality lead for my kettle.
I used a RA cable with an interference suppression device in the 13A plug, and the change in taste was astounding.
I have never tasted such a good tea bag in my life and the instant coffee was stunning in its coffeeness.
I am going to change the cables on my toaster and my George Forman grill to see if my steaks and sausages taste any better, a friend has an electric frying pan a bread maker and a liquidiser and he swears by the improvement when using a good quality mains lead.
I was thinking of getting into contact with Jamie Oliver to see he would like to do a taste test on difference they make to food. I just wish my washing machine, tumble drier and steam iron had IEC connecters, I am sure that some fifty pound mains cables would enhance and make my clothes feel so much better. My electric shower unit already has a good quality mains cable and it makes my skin feel so much nicer than it did with the standard cable. When the winter arives I am going to try this on my electric blanket to see how much cosier and warm it makes it. Does anyone know if my electic carving knife would apear sharper with a new good quality cable and slice the meat better? Gerald
Hello Steven Nicholas 2, knowing you are down under are you a descendant of a Convict or did you go to OZ voluntarily. Any way have you tried using good mains cables cut into one inch lengths and hanging from your hat to keep the flies away instead of corks. I do know of surfers who rub their boards with high quality cables and they say it keeps the sharks away. And helps them go faster with less interference. Gerald
I have been thinking that good quality mains cables on your Jig Saw, Router, Electric Plane, Skill Saw and Wood Lathe would help when making speaker cabinets Oak Cones and of course HI FI cabinets and shelves especially out of Tory Light this could be the start of a new line for the Golden Eared brigade who make their own wood products. I would be interested in anyone's views on this subject. Gerald.
Lets agree to disagree agreeably, in life there will always different oppinions. Lets say I won't convince you and you won't convince me as we have had differening experiences of hi-fi.
Yes I come from the land down under, beautiful warm country You should visit it some time, great food and people and very good at cricket.
Yes of course Gerald we all know that, the facts are so obvious, how come you are the only one to have the bottle to say so. In my experience the microwave oven can be improved beyond belief with a good mains lead. Just ask Gorden Ramsey, here is a man who understands mains leads more than most. Ask Jamie, Hugh or Marco they all understand the importance of a good cable, however they never shout about it as it is so well known, so hardly a news item.
Come on guys, this is not a notice board to 'reinvent the wheel' or dissect the 'obvious and well known facts'. What we should be discussing here is something original, like the metal of our door handles, or whether the window was open at the time of our musical utopia.
Lets wake up to 2008 this is the year that equipment has no part in the equation but cables take over, I think the expression 'the tide has turned' comes to mind, this is the year when all science and physics finally 'hits the dust', a year when almost pure imagination takes over. I think that this is singularly the reason that Gerald 'went over the edge'.
Would the proverbial that hits the fan ido so in a different way if good quality cable was used, I can imagine the way it would stick to the fan blades and would not fly off and hit you in the face, in the way normal cables cause it to do, also I believe it makes the motion of air sonically better but don’t let it get to your golden ears. Only my opinion you understand lets face it you are entitled to you opinion even though you are completely wrong, this was written without predudis and expressly reserving my rights. Gerald
You should visit it some time, great food and people and very good at cricket.
