Hi All,Getting back to the subject of Mains Cables it's obvious we have the same diversity of opinion that was shown over Interconnects and Speaker cables.......................................................A brief summary of the Cable situation in general so far would not go amiss :For the benefit of anyone who has just tuned in, some time ago AVR conducted a Cable BlindTest during which some interconnect samples were tested. The purpose of the Test was to define whether any sonic difference could be heard under Blind conditions...................................The Panel comprised an even mix of people chosen to represent Subjective and Objective viewpoints. The Objective members were largely predisposed toward the idea that the cables would make no difference while most of the Subjective members expected to hear a difference.The outcome of the test was that even the Objectives heard a difference between well-made and cheap cables. John, who I think it's fair to say was the most sceptical Panel Member, registered considerable surprise but conceded that he did hear a difference. (If I'm quoting you as near correctly as memory allows John?)....................................................Time passed and much rationalisation followed...but the result undeniably stood....................In order to understand why we were hearing those difference's John was requested by Wotslice to conduct a series of measurements on the cables actually used in the Test to determine if the results of the listening test could be validated by measurement. John being the helpful chap that he is readily agreed to conduct the tests (...and sincere appreciation from all of us on the Forum goes to John Fisher for performing the Tests by the way....)..Again, if I'm quoting John correctly, and not maligning him, the results of those measurements were inconclusive and failed to account for those sonic differences leading to the possible conclusion that the difference can be quantified by ear but not by measurement.(So far....)Moving on to the present we have a similar situation with Mains Cables....in which Users are claiming audible differences by using certain types of cable, suggesting that the geometry, or integrated components within the cable, are making a difference?I agree that it looks like a further Blind Test would help to clarify this situation too...perhaps Dave Oliver should be approached again?....................................................................................All the best.................................Bill.
Wow Bill that was a long one, but thanks anyway. Incidentally the actual measurements were made on Pluto's equipment as he has far higher computer sound resolution than I have, but still no real conclusion.
Maybe you are right and our MC is away, as I have sent him an 'in depth' article about cables, measurement, and the results. Last word was, he will publish it when he finds an article seeing the 'other side'.
Now to Steve, Tamara and Bill, even I find many of Mr Racklins remarks insulting in the extreme, unnecessary and inconsequential, so I would like to present a global insult reply.
Gerald, it is obvious to most on this site, that you have not simply missed your medication lately, but you have missed the very essence of life. You appear to spend your 'Lardy' days, poncing off the state and friends, with nothing better to do than 'slag off' the world, and eat yourself stupid. Your existance on this planet is detrimental to all, you have no purpose, no passion and no reason to even exist. Without wishing to appear insulting, I suggest you take up euthanasia as a hobby, others suggest that you are banned from writing on this site, most say nothing, probably out of embarrassment.
Is there not a shred of decency in your soul? Just how far down the line are you prepared to go, your wife left you, your kids don't want to know you, you have few friends in life and now you alienate many on this forum. You are coming up to retirement age yet still have the mentality of a fifteen year old. You live in one of the worst areas of Essex - Pitsea - an area known for it's 'scumbag' population, yet you have the Gaul to criticise people for their location in life, from what I hear you are racist, sexist and obnoxious in every known way possible yet you still continue to spout your b......s here.
Tell me when, and how, will the 'reality call' come to you?
Now many may find this message a little hard on poor old Gerald, but I put it up to redress the balance and put the record straight.
John and others, I do hope you all take ofensive, at what I am saying, what a load of B******s you speak you drunken F**k head yes I am all those things you say about me and proude of it yes I do hate everyone, but I dont have scabies so that is one good thing, and I am not a whore mongering drunk like some that I know, now if any of you dont like what I am proud to be theings I say then go F**k yourself many times over, at least I do not live in the land of the poofters where the arse bandits live I am sure the people I am talking about will know what I am refering to.
I have drawn a line in the sand many times over.
Now some of you talk such a load of B******s about cables I would be ashamed to admit I am so stupid and cant see the truth, those people are like Jahovas Witnesses and all the other god squaders, and have the brains of Citizin Band operators.
You seem quite fired up, just a reminder my name is not Nicholarse, its Nicholas - you can call me Steve if you like.
If my original query about power leads is upsetting people, I won't query about them on this forum again I'll go elsewhere. I was originally asking from those who may have used them thats all, or if you don't believe they make any difference that is fine. It was an innocent query not meant to upset anyone - if I have offended anyone I apologise.
Its a nice sunny day here in Melbourne, I'm just about to sit down and have breaky to listen to some old Dire Straits and then maybe some Ry Cooder then finshed off with Coldplay and maybe U2 and then lastly a bit of Jazz with Dianna Krall.
Hi Steve, you amaze me, there is an 'ID ten t' player out their taking the piss big time, and your response is 'call me Steve if you like', look back at the messages, this guy only has one intention in life and that is to discredit all around him.
Personally I am a great fan of Dire Straits.
But now I am beginning to visualise a 'perception' of you, a few more posts and I will say something on the 'perceptions' thread.
Thanks, I have had a wonderful day but it is now 01:36 in England.
Hello Steve, thank you for the nice reply you have sent. I have some friends who are from the Reservoir area in Melbourne and I think an old friend from England now lives in that City.
I think it is time for me to come clean, I am not crazy and have not been in an asylum but like to wind people up, and I have been told it has got a bit out of hand, the only reason I used the word Nicholarse is because there is a TV personality who's TV partner about forty years ago used to call him Nichalarse, which used to make everyone laugh.
Nothing I have said is meant to really upset anyone, especially you, and was not really meant to be insulting to you or anyone else, but to me everything is a joke as it is to someone else on this forum, I will not say who it is.
I was never in an asylum and the person I really am, whose name I won’t put here at the moment is a professional audio and recording engineer, I have been in the industry for the past fifty years and one day I will tell you all about the things I have done.
Don’t move your bit about power leads but keep it up. I do not subscribe to the theory about power leads and other type's of cables and never will, but if people want to believe it then I suppose I should let them.
I did not accuse you of any impropriety and was glad to have you say I should call you Steve.
I look forward to hearing from anyone else who now knows the truth about me.
I have just finished bacon and eggs with toast but it is now 01.39 BST in the morning, and it did taste good I have to say.
The mention of bacon reminds me of the Priest and Rabi who were talking and the priest asks the Rabi if he has ever eaten bacon oh yes he replies every day, the Rabi then asks the Priest if he has ever been with a woman to which the Priest replies yes many times and it beats bacon everytime.
Its good that some friendliness has returned to the forum , it seemed everything was becoming to tense and serious, and this is a hifi forum where we should be able to talk about everything properly as well as having fun but at the same time respecting that people may have different oppinions to us.
...the results of those measurements were inconclusive and failed to account for those sonic differences leading to the possible conclusion that the difference can be quantified by ear but not by measurement.
Dirt. It was all down to dirt and his partner-in-crime, grease. When I checked the cables in question I had huge problems getting consistent and stable results. Once all the horrible phono plugs had been well cleaned (taking over an hour of scrubbing to achieve stability) the results were as stated.
The point is that the cables should have been cleaned before the test. Those I examined were clearly in such a state as to invalidate any tests done beforehand.
A dry, clean cotton cloth. Perhaps that's why it took so long; I had no IMS or anything similar. I distrust standard domestic meths because it is said that the purple additive remains behind as a pollutant after the primary component has evaporated.
Plus, it doesn't taste as good
Duraglit (which is very slightly abrasive), followed by a good polish with a clean tissue has probably been my most successful method of cleaning connectors over the years.
" Being that this was a test did you not think of cleaning the plugs before hand ???"
Basically, no Carl - all I said was that I would bring along some cheap i/cs and that's exactly what what I did.
A retest? I'm game, but as I recall, I got most listening tests correct when using Pluto's cables against the Chords (Pluto's were used when my cheapies were rejected) so this doesn't query the validity of the test in any way but it does prove that we do not hear things the same.
Did my own tests down the years, and my conclusions are the same as test,and plutos outcome on plugs, but got to be honest you do realy need to be used to the sound of any given hifi before a great change is notable, anyone agree ? y/n
Now this is going off the ricter scale, tonight I noticed an imbalance in the stereo image. I thought this must be a cable problem, unplugged, then re plugged. no the right hand channel was definitely down.
Oh a good opportunity to try wotslice's cable, no difference there. OK so lets just connect the right channel, then wang the volume up, suddenly it came back into focus. Simply dirt on the wiper of the control. I tend to not change volume from a setting that I know is acceptable to those around me so the control rarely gets touched. Again Pluto's diagnostic, dirt is a main culprit.
Carl I believe you questioned my music, check this out, 'The Robin Nolan Swing Quartet', a band I heard live in Amsterdam. Guitar jazz, beautiful recording, this is what made the imbalance come to light.
I find that recordings tend to have a volume level where they sound most pleasing to me so I'm always adjusting the volume depending on the material and to a certain extent, my mood. For example older material is quiter than modern recordings and some recordings are for example too bright so I adjust the volume to compensate.
I don't tend to listen at low volume levels as any sense of realism is lost to me but my amp is 140 per channel and the vol setting varies from 16 to 22 out of 32 steps although I need to be wary of overloading the 989s. I did try to work out what DB this works out at but failed, can you enlighten me?
I too find a quite large difference in the loudness between different Cd's at an average volume setting some are quiet others loud, i too constantly adjust the volume level , the difference can be quite startling sometimes.
Yes right, I will get into the habit, wang the control before even switching on. And your right wotslice I do still have the leads, but now cleaned by Pluto and sound no different to the 'mid priced' cables I was using, sorry I will return them soon.
Carl, checked out the website and they look like the same band, my recording is from many years ago, but a very similar style so probably the same band.
RE: recording levels, although the perceived loudness may seen different, the peak level can only be 'so much', so by keeping the vol at a certain setting I know should not upset the neighbours. Having said that we are now in the early evening so lets up the ante and really enjoy.
John...
PS - just noticed that the spell checker recognises the word 'wank', was that tailored for the Hi Hi market???
Never though of using duraglit though.
lol
