My system has only two types of cable, massive speaker leads as short as practicable (Maplin as Pluto's recommendation), and a short interconnect between the CD and the amp. Having used a mid priced interconnect for some time I changed it for woslice's 'out of the box' cheapie and noticed no difference, not a small difference but non whatsoever.
Again John, I think I made it VERY clear that if you use poor speaker cable from Maplins then you will indeed find NO effect in changing the interconnects. (What was the 'mid priced' interconnect you speak of?)
I can't quite get a grip on your stance, you offer a link to a site totally decrying lead effects then state the complete opposite, you think I am 'having a go' the one time I agree with you, maybe you should look more deeply into your own state of mind than look into cables. Sorry a hard one to 'come to terms' with but true never the less.
John...
It seems to me John that you really dont offer a proper explanation as you rely so heavily on measuring everything in site and therefore have no choice but to question my sanity!!!
Ill make it clear. Change your interconnects and speaker cables for 8 core solid silver (Or better). Try em for a month. If you dont hear a difference then, its down to poor electronics and/or poor hearing.
Ps, Im not trying to be nasty. Im just making it clear that im not just going to sit back and agree with everything you say thats in 'direct conflict' to what ive already tested for myself .
Cheers Rik, well I'll tell you, come and listen, if you're not 'gobsmacked' by the sound I have then OK I will listen, but I think you will be, as many others have been.
Many years ago whilst buying a pair of Sony speakers the sales man said 'you really should get some good interconnects', I said yeah OK what do you recommend, he said XYZ, I said 'OK lets try them, you see those stairs behind you, well you go up them and when you come back down you will be able to tell me what interconnects we are using' his reply 'don't be ridiculous I could never do that', get the point, if he could not tell them apart then there was probably no difference.
That is the point I am trying to make, there is no difference, every ABX test has proved no difference every public demonstration has proved no difference, every scientific test has proved no difference.
Now this is not down to my limited hearing or what I perceive this is down to serious testing, yet you with your exceptional hearing detect differences that no one else does in a properly conducted test.
Are you the 007 (Bond, silver no copper) of the audio world, able to hear what no one else can, or are you simply deluding yourself like so many others???
Perception is 90% of the audio experience and that means that only 10% is down to equipment, cables and all the rest, so alter a part of that 90% and you will alter your perception, thereby changing your experience. You appear to view life as a Luddite and not look deeper into the real reasons, there are many reasons for what you say but for the most part they are not real they are imaginary like those numbers, the ones 90 degrees away from normality and therefore not seen. That little 90 degree trick is the secret to colour TV, high speed internet and many other things.
Now mate you are getting me into one here, I love numbers, maths and most of all truth, take a look at the 911 thread, started by me, read my article about how amps sound different and if you want I will send you a paper on the psychology of sales and the psychology of nicking or maybe a paper expounding the reasons to buy property or another about the reasons not to, I do understand both sides of the equation.
My system sounds aweseome compared to how it used to. The cd, amp and speakers I use are the same, but all the leads have changed over time.
I dont sit at home with 500 grands worth oif measuring equipment to determine that. I personally have never heard of ANYONE going into a 'listening room' with measuring equipment to check out leads or speakers or whatever (Im sure some do though). But my point is simple, if it sounds better to the ear (or looks better to the eye depending on what were talking about) then the person may well decide to buy that component.
Im in NO way disputing that what you have sounds great. You obviously believe it as do all the others that have heard it. But your positively deluding yourself if you 'truly' believe that what you have can NOT be made to sound any better. What you state there is that you have the ultimate cables. In this day and age of different compounds and alloys that a few quids worth from maplins is truly the best is just beyond belief. (Though to be fair now, if Pluto recommended them im pretty sure that they are VERY good 'for the price')
These properly conducted tests have faults as far as I know.
1 ~ hearing CAN be fooled (Thats a FACT)
2 ~ You can only fool the ears for a LIMITED amount of time in the 'real world' (another fact!)
3 ~ people try so hard to distinguish that they become confused
4 ~ some people will be so dead against it they will envariably randomise their results just to cock it all up
5 ~ For some unknown reason they nearly ALWAYS choose people 40 or over whith OBVIOUS degredations to what their hearing USED to be
I have tested my stuff over long periods of time. Something (I dont think) ANY of these tests have. And if they have I want to know EVERY detail about the test.............
I work on military aircraft. You wouldnt believe the sheer amount of cabling that goes on those things but it runs into hundreds of miles worth (at least). Now if what you said there held true then the whole thing would (So long as it wasnt excessive current) be wired up with maplins cable! They arnt. The sheer different types of cable is astonishing and these guys have REALLY delved into it (they LOVE to measure like you do but most importantly they MUST test them also for obvious reasons).
Perception is 90%? well thats just pulling a figure out of the air but I see where your coming from.
Here (again) is the crux. Having spent 3 years running on average interconnects and average speaker cables (qed silver spiral) and the original kettle leads. Since switching to high grade mains leads, silver plated, braided interconnects and solid silver braided speaker cables my system has NEVER sounded as good. I dont need measureing equipment to tell em that (And if I DID I wouldnt bother as I obviously wouldnt have HEARD the difference!!.........)
Findings I have found that I will NOT waver upon as ive tested them for MYSELF. The following cables make a difference ~ Copper, silver plated copper, solid silver and rhodium plated. The number of braids also makes a difference so a 3 core will not be as good as an 8 core and so on.
I understand that companies exist to 'make money' more than anyone. I understand that some WILL lie to get you to buy their products. THAT is why ive conducted MY own tests in MY own room using MY own equipment in MY time (And over a LONG period of time)
Just as an example of a 'listening room' though. Me and my dad were looking to upgrade his cd player (Ive said this elsewhere but for some reason a lot of my stuff gets deleted!). Forget the equipment used and what not, we decided straight away that we didnt like the sound (both of us). we changed the speaker cable (some solar wind ~ def not cheap) for some other (forgets the name) and the effect was 'instantanious'. FACT!!
As a further point to that. If you put me into a BLIND test between the maplins speaker cable and the solar wind im 99% sure id choose the MUCH cheaper maplins as the solar wind sounded c*ap to me! A descerning lack of bass for sure. And thats my point to the blind tests. Someone else might LOVE the solar winds!
"take a look at the 911 thread" ~ can you send me a link to that please. 911 as in 9/11??
Also, can you please tell me what the 'mid priced' interconnect cable you were using please as you must have missed my original request.
Improving cabling on my system has improved the sound for me significantly . For example changing from a qed silver to Kimber 8tc speaker cable has been one of the best upgrades ive done.
With the 8tc cable - a deeper and wider soundstage with more air and space, instruments and voices sounded fuller and more natural. Bass was more solid, you could also hear finer details like the breathing of the singer, the echo of the hall etc.
I tried the solar wind too - felt it lacked bass and body to the instruments, I was trying to upgrade from my kimber pbj and felt i went backwards - kept the kimber pbj. I may be getting the Nordost blue heaven though - not sure yet. Have you tried it?
hmmmm. Not sure about that actually. I think I briefly did in a hifi room but not enough to make judgements im afraid.
Having tried various manufacturers out I decided to turn to custom builds instead as (as with anything) you PAY for the manufacturers name before you even start paying for the actual cables in question.
This is the 'blurb' from the ones I have ~
"Each pair of X16 speaker cables is comprised of 32 individually Teflon insulated strands woven into an optimized Litz-concept braid.
Throughout the braid, solid silver conductors are alternated with high purity oxygen free copper. The result is a more affordable product that retains much of the performance of its all-silver cousin, the X32.
All X-series cables utilize a proprietary center core matrix that is exceptionally effective at acoustically damping the cable. This limits micro-phonic distortion as well as other problems that plague most speaker cable designs.
Standard termination includes LOK Sure-Grip rhodium over silver spades or banana plug connectors.
Optimized braid geometry Individually insulated, ultra fine solid silver and oxygen free copper conductors Proprietary dampening core matrix Finest FEP Teflon dielectric LOK Sure-Grip rhodium over silver spade or banana plug termination"
Id forgot actually. I thought I had 16 core cables but they are in fact 32 core cables!
I hasten to add ~ NOT cheap, but a LOT cheaper than similar reference cables from known manufacturers.
Ur 60 (ish) so your hearing will almost CERTAINLY not be what it was (Sorry but thats how age works on the whole)
Rik - what you are completely failing to take into account is that, with age comes the experience at listening (and many, many other facets of life) that enables you to distinguish between the things that matter and are therefore of importance, and the irrelevant.
The inability to distinguish these things is called "obsession".
"Rik - what you are completely failing to take into account is that, with age comes the experience at listening"
To take that COMPLETELY out of the hif world and into the real world heres one (of many examples I could give) where experience isnt always the be all and end all.
When I was 21 in my first engineering firm I was put next to a guy in his 60s. Now this guy in HIS DAY was supposed to have been the mutts nuts. I shall call this bloke person 'X'
My boss refused to pay me full money as he was adamant that Mr 'X' had WAY more experience than me and there was no way I could compete with experience. He completely failed to see how a 21 year old could compete with such a 'living legend'
I made him eat his words, got the payrise and Mr 'X' was shifted to an entirely different section as he clearly wasnt upto the job AND I gained a great deal of respect for going up against not just Mr 'X' but infact anyone he cared to put me up against!
(Thats an extremely short version but I think you see my point clearly)
Its just a shame that a lot of these 'experienced' people are unable to see 'outside of the box'.
Now dont get me wrong. I respect anyone that respects me back and I DO respect my elders. BUT ~ I will NOT be talked down to by anyone.
And Pluto, I in fact agree with a LOT of what you say (Throughout these threads im talking about) but even YOU have got to admit that where 'HI FI' is concerned then hearing MUST come into it!
Got to agree with you about thinking outside the box, how many times has an inexperienced apprentice come into a team and when faced with a problem comes up with a seemingly stupid answer only to be ridiculed by his experienced colleagues until they actually check it out , then it is red faces all round, i have seen it so many times.
Sometimes experience can be a handicap because it tends to ignore new ideas in favor of known ones.
YOU have got to admit that where 'HI FI' is concerned then hearing MUST come into it!
You need to look at the area of hearing that tends to deteriorate with age, and compare that to the frequency balance of typical music. Little of significance in music happens much above 8kHz, very little above 10kHz. A filter at 12kHz is generally described as causing a loss of "sheen" or "brilliance"- little of musical significance is lost.
Anecdotally, a couple of the best sound mixers I ever worked with have been, arguably, clinically deaf. With one, it was near-impossible to have a conversation without him looking at you. But both of these guys produced top notch results until the day they retired; the power of great experience combined with 90dBA++ listening levels.
Many years ago i used to live next door to a recording engineer called Dennis King, his hearing was severely damaged by high sound pressure levels but was still working in a similar way to your colleagues which i found amazing at the time.
... his hearing was severely damaged by high sound pressure levels...
Fortunately, most of the silly SPLs prevalent in the industry up to about 15 years ago no longer afflict those who work in it. The noise at work regulations saw to that! These days, figures in the region of the early-eighties (dBA) are for more common. And, it must be said, far more appropriate when making records for the public because of the ear's changing response with increasing SPL
I find that a lot of heavy rock / metal records sound a bit bass-light, and benefit from some LF lift on playback.
Funny thing mains cables, theirs lots of controversy and debate around whether they make any difference or not?
However, having spend thousands of pounds on my hi fi system, I decided it made sense to use the best mains cables with them, why scrimp and scrap and cut corners now…so I decided to buy some mains cables from Nordost…unfortunately I could hardly tell the difference and was rather disappointed.
I did some more digging and spent quite a lot of time reading around the internet and looking at double blind studies into mains cables etc (I can provide links in people are interested?)
I came across a company called Elucidate Cables, who claim to design their cables using filters, screening, and twisted pair techniques to actively reduce interference such as RFI and EMI.
Their EPIC cable, seamed reasonably priced so I purchased a 1 meter cable to test with, I wasn’t expecting a lot to me honest with you, however I was amazed at the difference it made, it blew my Nordost cable out of the water.
I’ve since bought a second cable for the 65” Plasma TV and was equally surprised by how much better the HD channels looked, the colours and everything seams to come alive and look more vivid….I’d highly recommend trying one of these cables to any sceptics out there.
The best of it was, I resold my Nordost cable on ebay and actually saved money
Funny thing mains cables, theirs lots of controversy and debate around whether they make any difference or not?
However, having spend thousands of pounds on my hi fi system, I decided it made sense to use the best mains cables with them, why scrimp and scrap and cut corners now…so I decided to buy some mains cables from Nordost…unfortunately I could hardly tell the difference and was rather disappointed.
I did some more digging and spent quite a lot of time reading around the internet and looking at double blind studies into mains cables etc (I can provide links in people are interested?)
I came across a company called Elucidate Cables, who claim to design their cables using filters, screening, and twisted pair techniques to actively reduce interference such as RFI and EMI.
Their EPIC cable, seamed reasonably priced so I purchased a 1 meter cable to test with, I wasn’t expecting a lot to me honest with you, however I was amazed at the difference it made, it blew my Nordost cable out of the water.
I’ve since bought a second cable for the 65” Plasma TV and was equally surprised by how much better the HD channels looked, the colours and everything seams to come alive and look more vivid….I’d highly recommend trying one of these cables to any sceptics out there.
The best of it was, I resold my Nordost cable on ebay and actually saved money
Hi James
Very intriguing ~ how much do they tend to retail for?
Ive tried some nordost cables out myself and can honestly say ive not been impressed either (shrugs). Which one was it by the way?
Is it no wonder that there is a lot of controversy about mains cables after all the mains is something like 660 Volts peak to peak and EMI or all interference is down in the millivolt levels, is it any wonder that the engineering fraternity do question your beliefs.
I'm really beginning to disbelieve my own sanity here, the mains travels possibly 30 Miles down standard cable, then through your house wiring ending up as a socket on the wall and yet the next metre makes all the difference, now forget bleating on about how 'it blew my Nordost cable out of the water' just think how unlikely that scenario really is, it is just so unlikely that to my mind it could not happen. So we need to look for other reasons, note I am not decrying what you say but only to state that the reasons are not what you say, personally I do not believe that anyone in the universe can hear one mains lead from another, so there has to be another explanation. What that explanation is I do not know, but it certainly is not science or physics and that only leaves psychology, unfortunately my friend that does answer the question and most others about Hi Fi.
Now I was hoping to find a couple of pictures to put up, but I haven't and not sure how to put them up anyway, so let me describe them, we are talking mains cables here, one a fairly decent 'kettle lead' at about £67, review 'nothing special lacked wow factor.', then another, had all the panache of what is expected, super weave, braiding, medically approved connectors, price about £270, review brilliant, worth every penny.
Do you get the point, all is in expectation and nothing is in reality, I will stick my neck out here and say, NO ONE CAN TELL ONE MAINS LEAD FROM ANOTHER if anyone can prove me wrong then I will only be only to willing to listen, excuse the pun.
) 
I may be getting the Nordost blue heaven though - not sure yet. Have you tried it?
