Hi all,

How about posting some aricles which can be read? ..and then it's not personal but informative..... and assume that the we have each have enough intelligence to assess them and discuss them without insulting each other.... 

I value all your personal opinions....  would hate to lose anyone from the forums.  Would love to read wider on the subject.... perhaps a little deluded (thanks Arthur) but genuine seeker of the "cables truth"... all the best Tamara

Hi Tamara,

Great to hear from you - good suggestion a positive contribution.

Cheers,

Steve.

Hi Arthur,

Thanks- thats a bit of a black and white statement - you have just put a fair proportion of the world in a box calling them deluded. That certaintly dosent help with a positive discussion.

Cheers,

Steve.

Tamara Bioylin wrote (see)

Would love to read wider on the subject.... perhaps a little deluded (thanks Arthur)

Sorry to be a party pooper, but there really are no fairies Tamara. )

 Lots of good stuff here.

"As a matter of interest, I have conducted many tests on many amplifiers, with all manner of different power leads (and ancillary outboard equipment such as a variable voltage transformer). The only measurable difference is a tiny (less than one watt) power difference. There is no evidence whatsoever to suggest that a mains lead can influence the "openness" of the high frequencies, or the "authority" of the bass. Electrically speaking, the transformer is a far greater offender, having much greater resistance than even the cheapest mains lead, and will also have leakage inductance and inter-winding capacitance."

Without even reading it all the way through I can see he HAS found a measureable difference

I think the problem therin is that just because its not a HUGH difference then the 'cable voodoo posse' believe it cant possibly make any difference. Purely a SUBJECTIVE comment

I notice also none are of the BRAIDED type so ill end the reading there..........

Red Dwarf wrote (see)

Im afraid the ONLY articles youll be getting from this lot are from the 'bad science' site where they all have exactly the same belief as John and Arthur etc anyways (ie ~ no actually conclusive MEASURING proof, just attacking those that believe otherwise. Sound familiar?)

We have the facts, you have a false belief based on a lack of understanding of how electronics works,  an argument from authority which amounts to a single hopelessly flawed test that was designed for a different purpose, one that demonstrated nothing whatsoever of significance in a real world situation, coupled with expectation bias. In short you bought the elixir, got better and now continuously praise the medicine man to the skies when all you actually received was water.

There isn't anything that any mains lead can do to AC power that will improve sound or picture quality.

I'm not attacking anyone, you're just wrong about this.

Hi All,

Simple way to get along, this should have been taught by our parents !! RESPECT.

Earning Respect

To earn my respect, please respect me by:

- Listening to me

- Trying to understand me

- Not pressuring or forcing me

- Not interrupting me

- Not abusing me

- Not using me

- Valuing me

- Acknowledging me

- Accepting me

- Not trying to change me

- Not using fear to try to control me

- Being honest with me

- Not ignoring me

- Not invalidating me

- Being patient with me

- Trying to help me

- Not punishing me

- Not rejecting me

- Not talking about me behind my back

- Not calling me names !

Hope this helps to bring members together no mater what they believe !!

A simple question then ~ and bear in mind 'placebo' has absolutely nothing to do with this as ive done my own tests by changing leads etc. if I didnt HEAR a difference then id agree with you

And the question is simple- if leads dont make a difference, why can I HEAR a difference?

(Ps ~ you missed the point that they also tested an amp with RFI and that RFi 'does' effect amps 'measurably')

Red Dwarf wrote (see)

A simple question then ~ and bear in mind 'placebo' has absolutely nothing to do with this as ive done my own tests by changing leads etc. if I didnt HEAR a difference then id agree with you

And the question is simple- if leads dont make a difference, why can I HEAR a difference?

stephen nicholas wrote (see)

Hi Arthur,

Thanks- thats a bit of a black and white statement - you have just put a fair proportion of the world in a box calling them deluded.

Deluded people aren't good for the world. We have suicide bombers, sectarianism and 9/11 to demonstrate it.

Arthur Mowe wrote (see)

Red Dwarf wrote (see)

A simple question then ~ and bear in mind 'placebo' has absolutely nothing to do with this as ive done my own tests by changing leads etc. if I didnt HEAR a difference then id agree with you

And the question is simple- if leads dont make a difference, why can I HEAR a difference?

The placebo effect and expectation bias. You can prove it by getting a friend to test you.

For the record when I very first tried a different cable I was exactly the same as you. I DIDNT BELIEVE THEY WOULD MAKE A DIFFERENCE

So if the placebo effect rang true then id have kept with my stock cable

I played a particular track with the stock. Then changed to the Isotek Elite cable id bought off ebay to test on the exact same track

The difference was immediate and unexpected. Deeper bass was the biggest difference and EASILY detectable by anyone with even half decent hearing

Im sorry Arthur but its YOU thats deluded

Bye..............

Hi all,

Maybe call it a truce guys - you wont convince each other - this debate has gone on for days.

Just to clarify - If I understand you right Arthur - I wouldnt put those who believe in mains leads in the same category as suicide bombers (deluded) etc if you suggesting that - I think that is offensive.

And are you then suggesting or implyng that anyone who dosent believe in what you believe in - is simply in the category deluded then. 

Bye

Steve 

stephen nicholas wrote (see)

Just to clarify - If I understand you right Arthur - I wouldnt put those who believe in mains leads in the same category as suicide bombers (deluded) etc if you suggesting that - I think that is offensive.

Steve

Both are a result of delusion but the similarity ends there.

And are you then suggesting or implyng that anyone who dosent believe in what you believe in - is simply in the category deluded then. 

Red Dwarf wrote (see)

Arthur Mowe wrote (see)

Red Dwarf wrote (see)

A simple question then ~ and bear in mind 'placebo' has absolutely nothing to do with this as ive done my own tests by changing leads etc. if I didnt HEAR a difference then id agree with you

And the question is simple- if leads dont make a difference, why can I HEAR a difference?

The placebo effect and expectation bias. You can prove it by getting a friend to test you.

For the record when I very first tried a different cable I was exactly the same as you. I DIDNT BELIEVE THEY WOULD MAKE A DIFFERENCE

So if the placebo effect rang true then id have kept with my stock cable

I played a particular track with the stock. Then changed to the Isotek Elite cable id bought off ebay to test on the exact same track

The difference was immediate and unexpected. Deeper bass was the biggest difference

Everyone can be deceived by the placebo effect.

How can replacing the mains lead make bass deeper when it isn't possible?

EASILY detectable by anyone with even half decent hearing

For a placebo to work id have to BELIEVE its going to work

I didnt

Bye Arthur ~ this threads had its day.........

Hi Arthur,

Thanks for the clarification - but not interested in discussing the issue further.

You seem very set in your thinking - to still suggest others who may have a different experience to you are simply deluded/or its a delusion - is simply a throw away statement thats not really worth discussing. It just creates a circular argument which is pointless.

Cheers and have a good night.

Steve.

Sorry Carl but my parents showed little respect and maybe that gets reflected in my replies.

Arthur just read the link you offered and I'm sure it is scientifically correct but I still have two outstanding quandaries. Red (dwarfie) in his authoritative reply starts by quoting some of the article and then concludes 'Without even reading it all the way through I can see he HAS found a measurable difference'  I'm sorry mate but you are now near the cliff edge and about to fall off, many of the measurements you so like to quote are about as relevant as the colour of my front door and have no effects on audio or picture quality.

Unfortunately for us all sound reproduction is of a very subjective nature, and that is one cause of the cable quandary. Whilst I grant you that our hearing is exceptionally sensitive it is also exceptionally easily manipulated. Take a look at the ‘Peter Belt’ site, interesting and different to most, but his take is very much that what we hear is more down to mood and relaxation then equipment. I have to rather endorse that opinion from experimenting with ‘mind enhancing drugs’ back in the 70s. They could change a system from ‘pretty average’ to ‘the best ever’ and all that without any cable change and a lot cheaper to boot.

Sorry Red you are on the route to nowhere, the statements you make simply do not stack up. No disrespect, I have made many mistakes in life myself but we live and learn. John…

John Fisher wrote (see)

Sorry Red you are on the route to nowhere, the statements you make simply do not stack up. No disrespect, I have made many mistakes in life myself but we live and learn. John…

John ~ no problem

You stay in your little 'bubble'