Hi all,

I watched the Dimbleby Lecture last night , Prince Charles view on the state of the planet and what needs to be done and the attitude needed to save us all .

I must say I was very impressed IMO he has hit the nail cleanly and firmly on the head and echoes my thoughts exactly .

Watch this

If you have time watch the link above and see what you think , if you have already watched it do you have any comments ?

Electro.

He Electro. Unable to watch the link at the mo but ill try and get round to it as soon as I can.

Have you watched the '[b]Zeitgeist[/b]' documentaries?

Now they ARE eye openers, the 2nd of which really hits the nail on the head as to the state of the world as it stands

If you want a real eye opener of the state of the world just google '911 truth' what you may find is horrific beyond belief...  

John Fisher wrote (see)

If you want a real eye opener of the state of the world just google '911 truth' what you may find is horrific beyond belief...  

Just watched it now Electro

Respect to charles for saying all those things but hes not really addressed the real concerns ~

The main one by far being that the economy is heading for a complete breakdown due to the fact that all money is simply pulled out of 'fresh air' and given value

This value is then paid back with 'interest'. And theres a point in the future we will hit whereby there simply isnt enough money in the world to repay the debt 

America declare 'false wars' simply to pull in more money from other countries to pay of its own debt. And/or con the countries into paying them through sheer corruption

That the energy companies dont WANT green energy. If they did theyd be doing so much more but they know as well as we do that if they did theyd be doing themselves out of a job

If America planeted wind turbines in space in just 3 of its states it could power the ENTIRE country forever (With maintenance obviously)

If we built enough geothermal stations we would NEVER need any other forms of power ~ it would be a limitless supply of power that lasts until the end of the earth

Charlies hearts in the right place, and clearly he cant do anything by himself. But more MUST be done globally, else we really are going to catastrophically fail...........

Red, you seem to be missing some factual points in your reply:-

I will keep away from the economy and America's desires as that is a whole other subject.

Wind power costs about eight times as much to build per KWh as conventional plant and does not give us power just when we need it but is dependant on the weather and storing electrical energy is highly inefficient. Off shore somewhat more costly. How a wind turbine could operate in space is a complete mystery to me as there is no wind in space.

If you think that geothermal stations could provide all the power we need then maybe a bit of research would not be out of place as I'm sure such solutions have been looked at by the power companies.

Many alternatives do seem plausible on the face of it but in reality simply create new and unsolved problems at this point in time.

Having one’s heart in the right place maybe a good start but it is a long way from solving the worlds energy needs, I really don’t know of any viable solutions even atomic power seems an answer but the problems of refining uranium rather defeat the exercise.

Actually John ~ theyve done studies on wind powered turbines and found they need VERY little wind to operate and so theyre fine to build

And my apologies but i ment space within the states, not IN space

And im suprised at you John. Because geothermal factories wont require any actual costs to run (Bar the initial setting up and maintenance costs), the power companies would lose billions and have no desire whatsoever to use them.

THEY want to burn fossil fuels and bio fuels and everything else they can get their hands on to maximise profits

Its all about money, nothing whatsoever to do with being green and efficient. I suggest you do a little more research John ~ its a bit like 9/11 all over again. In fact it IS 9/11 as that was just a ruse to invade Iraq to be able to get at the oil fields as Saddam wasnt playing ball with them (Amazing though it seems, Sadam wasnt prepared to be bribed as he knew the US simply wanted to bleed the country dry). They wanted the oil so they could make more money to pay off their debts at the cost of another country (And theyve done it). As theyve done with quite a few other countries already

OK Red, but wind turbines are still very expensive to build and their output is at the best variable and not consistent with demand.

OK on the space apology.

I'm sure if a power company could get results without actually buying any fuel then they would jump at the chance so I don't understand your stance on that.

Right, it is all about money but the American example is not one I would like to subscribe to and the more I read the more I dislike the ever greater desire to take over anyone and anything to simply get what they want is IMO a most evil regime. I have read much about the Americans ‘peace and democracy’ plans but it always comes back to ‘we will control you for your own good’ but much to their surprise the Muslim population rather like their way of life and have no desire to be controlled by an outer evil force.

I am probably going beyond the bounds of a Hi Fi thread here but this was started by Electo who seems to have his head in the right place. I have met a few Americans and their confidence level was so stratospheric that they could simply not believe any other way of life could be OK, but the rest of the world just gets on with it and does not try and impose it’s beliefs on everyone else.

Sorry but you are getting me ‘into one’ on this subject.

John…

I am rather surprised that a title like the 'future of humanity' has had so few replies, this in my mind just shows how insignificant many feel about the subject, when it comes to what music anyone likes there are many thousands of replies but when the question is what is the future of mankind it seems to be an area that would rather be forgotten, could this be denial or simply ‘I would rather not think about it‘, I think the latter and I also think that maybe one reason that WW3 may come as such a surprise, sorry to say that but all the conditions are in place just as they were in the 1920s the economic situation, the depression that we’re now in yet it seems to be a subject that is barely worth talking about.

I sincerely hope that I am wrong but to me the future of humanity is a very important subject and I would have expected it to gain very many replies.

Back on the soap box. John…

John Fisher wrote (see)

I'm sure if a power company could get results without actually buying any fuel then they would jump at the chance so I don't understand your stance on that.

John…

I understand your confusion as the answer is quite a complex one (but ill try and answer as basically as possible)

All power companies and companies that supply a 'service' are now 'regulated'. So for example the phone companies have been forced to lower prices when you use the phone abroad as their prices were taking the p*ss. If the regulators deem a price is too high then the company has to lower its charges

If say British Gas decided to build a hundred geothermal plants once theyre up and running the actual cost to them would be next to nothing to maintain and run. As theyre regulated on what it costs THEM then they would have to sell the power for next to nothing which equates to them losing billions. Of course that should be the same wether they do that or run as they are now but as you know, the more money involved the easier it is to fiddle the population

On top of that the oil companies are well aware that once green energy plants do become the norm, and were all driving electric cars or whatever then oil is no longer needed and they will cease to be (Or at least anything like they are now). Oil is the biggest business of all behind banking and theres no way theyre going to just sit back and allow all the 'green people' to destroy their monopoly

Taxes from oil also help pay a LOT of a countries debts so the government dont even want them to stop either

Corruption is also a big player. All these 'fatcat bosses' will sell their souls for money and power and dont give a damn about anyone else. They will lie, cheat and steal for as long as they can get away with it. The oil company bosses for example have a HUGH stranglehold on governments and power companies etc

But ultimately this is all futile. There WILL come a time in the future that there will simply be no more money left to pay back debts as the debts increase exponentially. Meaning complete economic collapse and (hopefully), the beginning of a much brighter future where the banks will no longer have control over entire countries. This is of course dependant on wether or not there is a planet earth left anymore due to all the greenhouse gases etc

Hi John and Red,

I agree with nearly all of your points.

One thing you can do is sign up to Prince Charles save the rainforest site ,probably the most important action to save the world as we know it.

      Here

The crying shame is that we have had the technology to replace the internal combustion engine since the 60's , it was developed for the space programme called a Hydrogen fuel cell       See   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oy8dzOB-Ykg

We could all be driving one now if governments and industry really cared about us instead of power and money.

John you were spot on when you said

John Fisher wrote (see)

I am rather surprised that a title like the 'future of humanity' has had so few replies, this in my mind just shows how insignificant many feel about the subject, when it comes to what music anyone likes there are many thousands of replies but when the question is what is the future of mankind it seems to be an area that would rather be forgotten, could this be denial or simply ‘I would rather not think about it‘, I think the latter and I also think that maybe one reason that WW3 may come as such a surprise, sorry to say that but all the conditions are in place just as they were in the 1920s the economic situation, the depression that we’re now in yet it seems to be a subject that is barely worth talking about.

I sincerely hope that I am wrong but to me the future of humanity is a very important subject and I would have expected it to gain very many replies.

Back on the soap box. John…

All the best Electro.

Hi Electro. Ive signed upto that site and even sent it out to 10 email addresses 

Every little helps

Hi Electro and Red I don't for a moment think that many proposed solutions are quite so ‘black and white’ as many suggest, for one thing although hydrogen is a very good and non polluting fuel what does not get mentioned is the energy required to produce it. In the same way if all cars were electrically powered then we would need more power stations etc. and more pollution. Maybe a natural gas powered car could be the future after all gas can be piped for many miles with no loss at all, unlike electricity with it's cable resistance and transformer losses. All said and done I would love to see an atomic powered car that as purchased has a ten year built in fuel supply like some aircraft carriers do, but even then there is the question of energy used in extracting uranium so whilst it seems easy to come up with solutions many create a new set of problems.

I do subscribe to Greenpeace but to me many of their concepts are simply ’non understanding’ of the problems and particularly the surrounding implications.

Good to see this thread getting so lively. John…

Hi all,

Well done Red as you say every little helps !

John you are correct when you say that to produce hydrogen and the fuel cells energy will be used , but it is considerably less than any other type of fuel .

 When the energy is released from the hydrogen via a fuel cell absolutely no pollution is created at all , no co2 no greenhouse gases of any type no particulates, only pure water . The other bonus is that 80% of the planet is covered in the raw material needed to make hydrogen , good old H2o , no mining or drilling no destruction of any part of the planet is needed.

Given time it is possible home conversion and storage units to produce hydrogen can be developed , all that is needed is the will to progress and develop it .

This is just a start      THIS    and   THIS 

All the best Electro.

Hi Electro, read all the links etc. and have seen many similar over the past couple of years. I have a mate in Devon developing such a system as a fuel enhancer for vehicles and claims some 50% improvement in MPG unfortunately he is very secretive so I know very little of the detail but I think it is pretty similar. Hydrogen powered cars using fuel cells are now being built at a prototype level as your link shows and alternative energy sources are being explored, every other year a new form of solar panel is developed that is sigificantly better than the last. We now have LED lighting that has the efficency of flourecent but without the mercury so I do rather belive that the major players are in it for something other than pure greed.

Maybe I am nieve but I allways believe humanity is out to improve it's lot, but the real power as in polititions, and they for one don't understand technology at all, and two believe their power to be more important than anything else, but at least the rest of humanity is trying it's best.

As for the will to progress, I think it is there, at least for most people. But at times I really do wonder why when 'the powers that be' still have a desire for war and destuction, have 'the powers that be' learnt nothing from the past thousand years, it appears not.

Thanks Electro, this has been to most illuminating and contsructive thead on AVreview, probably not so endorsed by Dave O but a whole lot more rewarding than the continual rantings about c*bls.

Sorry a word I canot mention apart from in my thread. John...

Hi John,

You are spot on with this statement ,

John Fisher wrote (see)

Maybe I am nieve but I allways believe humanity is out to improve it's lot, but the real power as in polititions, and they for one don't understand technology at all, and two believe their power to be more important than anything else, but at least the rest of humanity is trying it's best.

As for the will to progress, I think it is there, at least for most people. But at times I really do wonder why when 'the powers that be' still have a desire for war and destuction, have 'the powers that be' learnt nothing from the past thousand years, it appears not.

  

I started this thread to see how many people on this forum feel strongly enough to make a comment or voice their opinion about all our futures on this planet.

I look at my children and I fear for them and any children they may have and I wonder why so few people seem to care or at least talk about it.

On a reflective note Electro.

Well yes I do rather understand, it seems that many people only see the immediate, probably less than a few days, hence Mr Jackson's demise overloaded the web more than at any other time. I bet that an announcement that we are now entering WW3 would create less activity, unbelievable as it may seem this apparently is how most people think I’m sorry to say that I don’t think like many others and that may explain why I am a rather lonely old bastered but I can not change my thoughts simply to accommodate the many un-researched thoughts and beliefs of others...

Hi Electro, John and Red Dwarf,

I'm not that technical I can only answer generaly.   I watched HRH on the Dimbleby Lecture... He's politically exact but his strong views are caged by that.  The thing he said that struck me was that science/technology needs balancing with our philosophies.   It's our "until now" crude understanding of Science/technology and blunt application fuelled probably by the politically strong companies which continue to promote dangerous/hazardous courses to their OWN ends..ie money cloaked as "benefitting" us.   

It's that all pervasive "Self-gain", "Self-promotion" "Self-gratification"...SELFISHNESS which has made us all shortsighted pleasure seekers....It's pervaded all of society. Ruined  all of our "well meaning" progress.  We (that is society) need to learn to  evaluate very carefully what benefits us all in the long term. 

I agree with Electro..sign the petitions... lobby the local MPs/businesses  etc..be politically active..not destructive.....  Get your voice heard. 

I agree with John and Red Dwarf.  Re 911 There is nothing so damagng to our overall distrust of the ruling authorities and their powers.   Be politically aware and careful who you vote for.

Re: Power:  The need for power has outstripped the ability to produce it without the use of nuclear power. at present.  Even if we wanted to we couldn't change quickly enough.    

Lincolnshire has several villages powered for the most part by their own wind farms. i know individuals who have geothermal heating systems. Solar power is becoming available very cheaply with kits for a light in a shed say.  The third world are ahead of us in solar power for charging mobiles... the technology is growing and spreading.

It's time to throw away the "throw away age"....repair not renew. 

Do what you can ..recycle, compost, conserve energy, eat less meat especially (it's a very wasteful use of resources) ... organise your life to reduce your carbon footprint.

We too will only make changes which are economically practical... ..such as loft insulation/solar panels/ double glazing.... car....central heating...  These changes may need making but are they truly necessary?  To make a new one may take more resources than the "instant replacement"   We can't equate them. 

All change will be slow, too slow for us.  BUT  it'll be those  slow imperceptible changes of each  individual taking their own responsibility that will lead to real progress and that hope for our children which HRH was talking about...  l

all the best ..putting my soap box away now Tamara

I am impressed Tamara, that must be one of the longest posts you have made on this site but the reality of many well meaning power generation schemes is in the ‘bigger picture’ hardly significant, imagine for a moment that everyone on the planet had a wind generating system and they were all self sufficient for power and even the Mega Watt hungry users like steel and aluminium production could be provided for then with all that energy being extracted from the movement of air it would result in no further movement and the whole system would collapse in the same way if all countries adopted wave derived energy then there would be no waves. The only real source of energy we have is from the sun so solar power makes more sense than any other but compared to the massive requirements of industry it simply cannot be met at the moment, maybe that will improve in time and certainly solar cells are getting more efficient by the year. Note that almost all our energy has historically been produced by the sun in one way or another, oil, gas, bio fuel etc. so based on the suns thermo atomic reactions then maybe we can replicate these at home and create all the energy we need.

Again straying from popular opinion. John…

Hi John,

I agree. We are too power hungry in terms of industry...and we can't lower consumption quickly enough without imploding as it were... We either  personally choose to restrict our consumption or the government will do it for us.   There are finite resources and the whoever's in power will try to control it by whatever means possible.... 

I'm interested to see if there s a rush to the countryside as industry fails to meet our real needs...

I like that you stray...but not from the forums..Tamara