Rik H wrote (see)

Good link Arthur

Unfortunately ~ ive done my OWN research which says that the 'BAD SCIENCE' link is wrote by complete retards

Shame................

Rik H wrote (see)

Im trying Dave

Hi Rik , Arthur , John, Dave, and all

I think we just have to all agree to disagree on this subject , it is never going to reach a conclusion so it might as well stop now rather than in another 1000 posts.

We all enjoy our hobby in different ways , none of us has a right to criticize another for the way they wish to pursue it.

All the best Electro.

I think the problem is trying to prove this.

The none believers will ONLY believe an ABX blind test

The believers say blind tests arent to be trusted and they must be used over time

I cant possibly see a way around that 

The other problem is that (In my opinion), conditioners and mains cables do have both positive AND negative effects

As a back up look at these 2 reviews ~

 ISOTEK

 SUPRA

 The Isotek says thus ~

• For - Consistent improvement in bass weight and treble refinement
• Against  - tilts timing and zaps some of the life from music

the Supra says this  ~

• For - Well built, tightens the sound and gives impact
• Against - Some might not like the leaner sound and loss of depth

Which pretty much defines part of the ABX problem. What one person likes, another might not.
Ive personally had a similar experience. I originally (Well still use it) had an 8 way conditioner. It IMMEDIATELY made my tv look better (Especially freeview). Everything was more 3dimensional and sharper (This was a 28" philips CRT tv. It made no discernable difference to my hifi though.3 years later I tried my first mains cable on my amp. An isotek Elite. That was also an instantanious change (ALL for the better). So its clearly dependendent on the equiopment used.Its why I now use a powerblock for all my hifi (For high current), braided cable to 'reduce' (NOT eliminate) mains bourne interference and EMI, the original conditioner for basic stuff (minidisc player etc) and a Mira for my tv.

The result?

Awseome sounding and looking hifi and home cinema.I couldnt care less what ANYONE tried to tell me. Ive tried and tested a ton of stuff (With varying degrees of success).My system looks and sounds FAR better today than it did 3 years ago...........

Rik H wrote (see)

I think the problem is trying to prove this.

The none believers will ONLY believe an ABX blind test

The believers say blind tests arent to be trusted and they must be used over time

I cant possibly see a way around that 

The other problem is that (In my opinion), conditioners and mains cables do have both positive AND negative effects

As a back up look at these 2 reviews ~

 ISOTEK

 SUPRA

 The Isotek says thus ~

• For - Consistent improvement in bass weight and treble refinement
• Against  - tilts timing and zaps some of the life from music

the Supra says this  ~

• For - Well built, tightens the sound and gives impact
• Against - Some might not like the leaner sound and loss of depth

Which pretty much defines part of the ABX problem. What one person likes, another might not.
Ive personally had a similar experience. I originally (Well still use it) had an 8 way conditioner. It IMMEDIATELY made my tv look better (Especially freeview). Everything was more 3dimensional and sharper (This was a 28" philips CRT tv. It made no discernable difference to my hifi though.3 years later I tried my first mains cable on my amp. An isotek Elite. That was also an instantanious change (ALL for the better). So its clearly dependendent on the equiopment used.Its why I now use a powerblock for all my hifi (For high current), braided cable to 'reduce' (NOT eliminate) mains bourne interference and EMI, the original conditioner for basic stuff (minidisc player etc) and a Mira for my tv.

The result?

Awseome sounding and looking hifi and home cinema.I couldnt care less what ANYONE tried to tell me. Ive tried and tested a ton of stuff (With varying degrees of success).My system looks and sounds FAR better today than it did 3 years ago...........

Ears and eyes have seen the improvements that the mind was expecting to happen because our recall in terms of such things isn't that good. Someone expecting something to become worse would also experience that. Humans are like that and there's really nothing new here.

Where is the mechanism, the scientific explanation for these supposed changes? There isn't one as far as I know, but if anyone can offer one I would be very interested to hear it.

Proper double blind testing is the only way to settle a subjective discussion and the will to carry out such testing just isn't there because of all the vested interests involved. It would also leave the hifi press looking more than a bit foolish.

I thought we were done Arthur?

Interesting though. Must all your hifi components have gone through a similar blind test before you go buy them?

Hi guys,

I think you guys are going to keep going around in circles - maybe call it a truce as Dave suggested. I think everyone is starting to getting sick of it going on and on and on ....

cheers,

steve.

stephen nicholas wrote (see)

Hi guys,

I think you guys are going to keep going around in circles - maybe call it a truce as Dave suggested. I think everyone is starting to getting sick of it going on and on and on ....

cheers,

steve.

Hi Steve

You only need a truce if there's a war. There is no conflict here, only a discussion.

Rik H wrote (see)

Interesting though. Must all your hifi components have gone through a similar blind test before you go buy them?

Hi arthur,

If I look through the whole forum - its been a bit more than a discussion at times .

Cheers,

Steve.

"Sounds like an impasse guys - time to agree to differ on this one?"

Should we vote to lock the thread?

Christopher Harnett wrote (see)

"Sounds like an impasse guys - time to agree to differ on this one?"

Should we vote to lock the thread?

If you don't want to join in the discussion please feel free to ignore it.

Dave Oliver wrote (see)

Sounds like an impasse guys - time to agree to differ on this one?

Do you ever check IP addresses Dave?

Or do you just ban people then let them in again on a new username?