omg, i'm still here, must try harder next time!!!! Whats this about hangover cures??? This threads startin to get interesting again. Hehehehehe

Ray,

Naim tried to convince people that their cables sounded better with their kit because their kit is of such crap design that it tends to go unstable at the slightest hint of capacitance in the load, in which case some cables would be disastrous.

To all those who see sense, john, pluto, etc good on ya, keep it up, i got no probs with you and respect you as you well deserve!!! However, i'm of the opinion that bashing my head against a brick wall fookin hurts and if people want to spend their money in shops selling more 'crap' than Gerald Ratner thats up to them. Personally i'd rather spend it on summut that makes a s**te of difference. For this reason, i'm leaving this thread and possibly the whole forum. I'm thinking of trying something more promising.... I thought maybe trying to convice nuns to become pole dancers would be an easy start compared to this. FFS dont believe the bullshit, dont be brainwashed by the marketing people, if it makes no difference then FFS say so, have some fu**ing spine, ok so you may have f***ed up and wasted money, admit it made no difference rather than trying to cover your own arses all the time and convince the rest of us to make the same mistake. I gave my best advice, i offered a rational explanation for all the effects you claim to see, but no, it had to be due to something else, the magical unmeasurable 'x' factor. Well, as you dont seem interested in taking the logical approach to things, i got some good news for you. IF you have an infitinte amount of time to try an infinite amount of random ideas, then one day you will hit upon the ultimate system. However, back in the real world, none of us have that time and so prefer to base or starting point on known science, not bloody voodoo or umeasurable, wishy washy, subjective views full of flowery words. Just take a step back and you'll reaslise what a load of old bo****ks it really is.

Well...

I guess i'm banned from posting on this site now, its been fun but at the same time made me wonder at the power of marketing. Think about it.

Regards,

 Pete.... 

Hi All!!!

Matthew.... The DVD player you bought £17 is a good example. As it stands, it's probably worth £17 or maybe more. However, if an upmarket hi-fi company such as Naim, Meridian or Cyrus 'tuned' the sound to make it clearer or more exciting, then it would probably sell for much more, despite the fact that it wouldn't cost any more to make.

I doubt they would even have to that, a simple re-badging operation would be enough for most to part with £hundreds!!!

Ok Frank,

Reference LCR etc. At the start you are asking what LCR parameters can be changed within the construction of a cable and state that 'I see any cable as being merely an electrical hindrance to transmission at any frequency'

Yes any cable is a hinderance at any frequency, a thin cable will exhibit a higher resistance and hinder all frequencies, its L will also be slightly higher. A decrease in volume will be noticeable if we are talking speaker cables here and possibly a very small amount of HF roll off due to the L. C is a function of the plate area and the spacing (assuming no change in dielectric), so in the case of a cable its basically the spacing (assuming round conductors). I'm not saying that a length of bell wire wont sound crap, but the frequency response differences in any heavy gauge cable due to L & C, whether it be silver or copper, would be minimal if any. 

Later on you say ' it is a case of almost pot luck which of the audible frequency spectrum the cable is going to corrupt.  Some alter the treble frequencies, some the bass, others attenuate the treble which gives a bass emphasis, some attenuate the bass which gives a treble emphasis.  It is only a very badly constructed cable that attenuates at all audible frequencies.'

I had to read this several times as you use the words 'alter' and 'attenuate' separately, each time in respect to bass and treble. You yourself agree that a cable doesn't introduce a significant frequency response in the audio range due to L and/or C so it only leaves R.

I'll deal with the attenuation first. You say that some attenuate the treble and some the bass. Where are you setting your datum here? Could it not be that the treble is more or less constant and it is just the bass that is dropping by differing amounts or vice versa?? This i could relate to cable resistance (assuming passive crossovers). The impedance of a speaker is not by any means fixed, it varies with frequency. If a passive crossover is used, the problem becomes even worse. If the speaker (crossover) is tied tightly to a decent amp then the low output impedance should be able drag the input of the crossover to whatever voltage is required at that particular time. In addition, assuming the amp has a decent damping factor, it will shunt any back emf, preventing the drivers from interacting. If, on the other hand, there is significant resistance between the two, the voltage drop across the cable will vary depending upon the impedance of the speaker/crossover at the frequency in question. The impedance of a speaker, especially one with a passive crossover varies wildly. This would account for your 'pot luck' factor.

Next the 'altering'. A cable cannot alter the frequency. A poor cable with high resistance would lower the damping factor and could cause interaction of the drivers (assuming we are talking about passive crossovers here). This could possibly produce intermodulation products at high volumes, causing extra frequencies to be present.

This is my logical explanation for what you're finding. It can all be explained purely by resistance values. Low resistance can be achived perfectly well with with decent copper cables.